Hi again Phyllis I am aware that the birth certificates were not started in Ireland until then. I have been lucky enough to get the birthdates of my GGG Patrick, Wife Margaret Coyne Groom and now know there were 3 more siblings I didn't know existed. I ran into the same thing with my Father's family (Briertons) I only knew he had a brother Thomas. Then I found out there was a sister Rose and another brother Jimmy who were older. As if that wasn't enough I found out that Jim(my Father) and Uncle Tommy lived with sister Rose for a while. As one of the children of Jim I was shocked that myself and my first cousins had never heard of Rose and Jimmy. What was it with that generation! Nobody talked to each other? Beats me.