Thats great, from the census I have with Elizabeth and William Gowers living the Abels' I couldn't quite make out the Gowers but now I know. So is Elizabeth junior Elizabeth Catherine Abel? and would you please pass on the 1841 census number so I can find and copy. I have the Abel family on census 1851,1861,1871,1881 and Elizabeth abel senior in the 1891(I think) a widow. I will need to check. There were many Abels' who were Lamp Lighters or who worked for the Gas Workes in including a Matthew, a William and a Robert all in their 20's in the 1841 census each with a young family. Have use had chance to find James Abel in the 1851 census?