Thanks for your reply. It's my understanding that James L. Allen was the son of Lemuel Allen who was Carter Allen's older brother. Lemuel was a son of John and Mary Ann Butler Allen of Rutherford (Cherokee) Co. NC., I'm trying to determine whether my William was the son of Carter or William, Carter's brother. Carter's father in law was William Groves. I'm hoping my William G. was named for him. I have spent some time tracing Mary Ann Butler's lineage and may be on a track that ties us into the Thomas Carter family of VA, if Mary's father was the Joseph Butler that married Ann Carter. If I'm on the right track the Carter family lineage goes well into the 17th century and the end of the 16th as do some of the related families. So far, I haven't found anything on John Allen. I hope to find a marriage record for them in Virginia as the Butler's were buried in a Church of England parish cemetary. We'll see.