This is one of several postings we are making this date - some information will be duplicated - but we collectively need to get beyond confusion. We almost missed several postings, more than one, because of POOR HEADINGS.......PLEASE....... EVERYONE.....always include Who, What, Where, When (and maybe Why) in your headings......as much as you know, anyway. IN THE HEADINGS, not just the body of the posting.
We have a bit of information on The Carters of Sparta, Tennessee; please visit our web site, click on the Carter-Dunn Clan and be sure to find the Bio Pages - the following is the printer friendly version for Will:
William CarterDFT Person In Focus ID No. 13685 Religion:
Child(ren) of and , married
1. William Carterca. 1775-- VA? aft 1840--
Ruth Bean1780-- TN aft 1860-- KY
F:David (unproven) Bean1749-12-14 Gilmanton, Belknap Co NH
Child(ren) of William Carter and Ruth Bean , married 1801-07-18 Grainger Co TN
1. Jasper Carter0000-06-22 White Co TN
2. Lathamy Carter1802-03-29 TN
3. Robert Carter1805-09-26 TN
4. Betsyanne Carter1807-02-24 TN
5. Martha Carter1808-10-10 TN
6. Casama Carter1810-04-06 TN
7. Williahah Carter1813-03-29 White Co TN
8. William Fitzhugh? Carter1816-03-13 KY or TN1890-03-28 Sparta, White Co TN
9. Mary Carter1819-01-01 White Co TN
10. Susanne Carter1820-06-24 White Co TN
11. Edward (Edmund) Carter1824-06-24 White Co TN
12. Charlotte Carter1825-10-27 White Co TN
13. Rev. James Henry Carter1826-01-27 White Co TN1900-04-22 Cumberland Co KY
14. Wayman F. Carter1828-04-20 White Co TN
15. Sarah C. Carter1829-02-01 White Co TNCumberland Co KY
16. Lucy Francis Carter1832-05-06 White Co TN
Biography and Notes:
William CarterBuried: Unknown
His place of birth as VA? is from the census listings for Wm. F. showing both parents from VA.However, we have an email of 11 Jun 2003 from gr gr grandson Samuel Cooke McCarver:
".....Golda, Mamie's sister, told me about 1967 that Clark's parents were either John or William F. Carter (most likely,William F., although also called John in some places) and that he married Olivia Crab Orchard (rather definitely, on that name).It was said William F. Carter, was from Scotland or Wales, coming then to America.He and Olivia were both born about 1810, but she was born here.He married Olivia Crab Orchard in about 1830."
Sorry Sammy, but Wm. F is well documented to have been born in America, some say 1816; William himself sets his birth in 1819 over several census - he could not have married in 1830.(The confusion over John might be explained by Baby John found in the Bio of Wm. F. from the 1850 census).On the other hand, it is possible Will was actually born in Scotland and first "recorded" in Virginia; but how and why would he have "zipped" all the way down to Bean Station in one generation?Land Patents?And all we can say is there is no Crab / Orchard / Craborchard in the public record. (see Olivia Carter below).
What we can say is that from census and birth certificate information, a Ruth was seen with three of the cited sixteen children from the Sue Beck Carter book.And then ---- the only marriage found in early Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee or Virginia of a Mr. Carter, McCarter, MacCarter to any Ruth was the 1801 marriage in Grainger County, Tennessee!!!
We must now observe a few things about Wayne County, Kentucky which we found in our research and first note that the border between Kentucky and Tennessee was not resolved until 1820.The main issue is a series of curious comings and goings of Carter (and related families) between Wayne County, Kentucky (on the Tennessee border) and White County, Tennessee.No one item proves anything, but we must consider the aggregate effect of these five items:
1.Re: G. G. Dibrell(These were the founders of the Dibrell Normal School, Sparta.We later learn that Lillian Haggard Carter of McMinnville was teaching at the Sparta Normal School and that her father-in-law William F. Carter and his son-in-law William L. Dunn were White County teachers in the 1850's.Wm. F. Carter went on to become the first County Superintendent of Schools.Ronnie Dunn of Putnam County, Tennessee has also observed that based on census data, his line of Dunn had above average literacy rates.Please accept all this as factual reporting, not snobbery).
"Gen. George W. Gibbs, the first president of the Union Bank of Tennessee, at Nashville, and afterward the founder of Union City, Tennessee; was for many years a citizen of Sparta. He was a senator in the State Legislature at Knoxville, Tenn., when he resigned, came home, and raised a company during the war of 1812, and made a fine record. His wife was a sister of Anthony Dibrell who located in White County in 1811. Mr. Dibrell was born in Buckingham County, Va.; moved to Wayne County, Ky., when a youth; married Mildred Carter, who was raised in Wythe County, Va, and located in White County, where he died in 1875 aged eighty-seven years.".
Goodspeed's Biographies of White County, Tennessee
See White County Vol. F. Sales and Indentures, pages 271 and 272 for additional details on the Dibrell
2.Re: Edward / Edmond / Edmund Carter, son of William and Ruth - We do not know the reason why, but Edward is the first to go back to Wayne County to marry in 1846; his is the first of many, many encounters with the Upchurch - who were also close by in Sparta.According to Sue Carter, our first Carters of White County always knew they came from Kentucky.This is entirely consistent with item 1., isn't it?The only thing we can say is that travel would have been fairly easy because of the broad plain up and down the western edge of the mountains.
3.Re: The Rev. James Henry Carter, son of William and Ruth - James is found in the 1850 Wayne County census with first wife Elizabeth "Nellie" Upchurch and infant Shrewsbury and right next door are three different Upchurch families.Sue says they married in 1848.In the other direction, there is an Upcurch family four houses away.Sue explains that he was a circuit rider for the Methodist Church in the tri-county area and that on his daughter's birth certificate, he plainly stated that he was born in White County, Tennessee.
4.Re: Widowed Ruth with Wayman and Lucy Carter - OK, if two sons have already moved back, then we could expect Ruth and the remaining two children to follow.Yet, there were eight daughters and Montgomery still in Sparta!All we know is that she was widowed some time between 1840 and 1850 - did she go back before either Edward of James, and if so, why?
5.Re: Carter Upchurch of Jackson County TN - The name says it all.Yes, from the Upchurch of Wayne County, Kentucky.In response to a GenForum question "Ellen Upchurch married James Carter in TN? 1840's" Rebecca Murphy answered "Hi Terrie: James H. Carter was b. 1-27-1826 in White Co., TN and is buried in the Lowe cemetery, Slickford, Wayne Co. KY" etc.etc.etc.Only problem is, Sue says he's buried in Cumberland County and his nephew says he's buried on "Carter Mountain" beside a lovely bush and that he had been to the grave.
Our gut reaction is Wayne County, Kentucky alone could take a lifetime.Never mind Wythe County, Virginia.
To date, George Upchurch (1757 Brunswick County, VA - 1830 Wayne Co KY) appears to be the Progenitor for the Upchurch.There is a Joseph Upchurch on the following 1812 tax list (different Company) who is probably one of George's sons.He is traced to Fentress County TN where he was a Justice of the Peace.
One of the earliest records of a William Carter is on the 1812 (Militia) Tax Rolls for White County.It is our opinion that this is one of the other two William Carters known to have been in the area - William R. who went on to Mississippi (below) or the William(s) associated with the Gillentines and Stipes at the Van Buren line (from The History of White County).The tax list shows this William in the Company at "Cook's Ferry - Caney Fork"- at the border with Van Buren County - and not at Hickory Valley or Sparta which had their own Companies.
As a footnote to the tax list, there is a Peter Carter in the same Company with the William listed; we must now take note of the cemetery listing found in the White county White Book for "Olivia Carter 'w/Peter' " - this is the only Olivia noted in all of the public records and is the only resemblance to the Olivia Crab Orchard from Sammy.
As to our William, it is true he could have moved up from the Caney itself to Sparta proper, but there are too many other details listed below that do not suggest this.
As to the evidence at hand, there is a William Carter in both the 1830 and 1840 US Census, TN, White County,of the proper age and with the proper number of children to fit the hand-written list from the Sue Carter book "The Rev. James Henry Carter". She also correctly notes that our William does not appear in the 1850 census but Ruth appears with Wayman and Lucy in Wayne county KY - and Ruth herself declares her age at 70 (born 1780) and born in Tennessee.This information is repeated in the 1860 census, same place. Although census data is never perfect, this can not be a Ruth from New Hampshire as some on RootsWeb contend.
From the Sue Carter book, we specifically find that the sister-in-law of researcher Edwin H. Morse had prepared a two page, hand-written list of "The children of my great grandfather Carter" which includes No. 7 William F. - Mar. 13, 1816 and No. 12 James - Jan. 27, 1826 in the total of 16 children listed.
Author Sue Carter makes a very good case for the "possibility" that William Carter and Ruth Bean were the parents of James Henry Carter.One has to be particularly swayed by her argument of the middle name of Montgomery being used on three different descendents.We add the observation of the repeated use of the Cummin(gs) name and that the date of marriage fits almost perfectly into the date of birth for first born Lathamy.(From notes in Wm. F. and Oscar Carter, we later learn that there is both a village of Cummins just south of Sparta, and a town of Cummingsville at the Van Buren county line).
To document our William, we search the 1810 US census and the only William Carter in Tennessee is over in Rutherford County, not Grainger or White as we might expect.Thing is, the family listed fits the profile we are looking for - 2 boys under ten, 2 girls under ten and the adults are between 26 and 40.The William Carter listed in Wayne County, by contrast, has older children.
Then in 1820 there are no William Carters in Tennessee - according to Ancestry.com, that is!!!Thanks only to the Tennessee GenForum, we find the 1820 census for White county on line - and it lists the pesky William R. Carter (next to Peter, as in the 1812 tax list).The profile for the family of this William R. Carter does not begin to match the profile we are looking for.
Because of the family match in 1830 forward, we must assume William R. Carter left White County sometime between 1820 and 1830.Also, since the family of William R. is demonstrated to be older,he could not be the groom of the Ruth (Bean) in 1801 Grainger County.
And there is still only one William in Wayne County, who appears to be the same person from 1810.And who again appears as the only William in the 1830 Wayne County census.
But then in the 1830 US census, White County, Tennessee, image 39, there is a William Carter aged 50-60, with 8 sons and 5 daughters which fits the profile.While the total number of children and approximate birth dates match the Sue Carter list, totals for the sexes seems backwards.There have been worse census anomalies.The important conclusion, though, is that William R. left - and our plain Will arrived; the family profiles are just too different to conclude otherwise.
And from the 1840 US census, TN White County, all, pg. 5 there is a William Carter aged (again) at 50-60, with 6 sons and 6 daughters.The William still in Grainger county is a tenderfoot at age 50-60.And the spouse is only aged 40-50.We find out about William R. Carter from an exchange of email as a result of a GenForum posting:
"My name is Patsy Carter Garrison.I live in Huntsville, AL.The following is my line:
1William R. Carter Sr. b: Abt 1770 in Virginia d: Abt 1841 in Itawamba Co, Mississippi.
.. 2Franklin Carter
.. 2Irvin Carter b: Abt 1797 in Virginia
...... +Margaret m: Abt 1825
.. 2Sanford Carter(my line) b: 1803 in Tennessee d: March 03, 1859 in Itawamba Co, Mississippi
...... +Anna Penelope b: Abt 1814 in North Carolina m: Abt 1828 d: March 02, 1849 in Itawamba Co, Mississippi (Buried in Whites Cemetery in Itwamba)
...... 3William G. Carter b: 1828 in Marion Co., Alabama
...... 3Alexander Carter (my line) b: 1830 in Marion Co., Alabama; died in the Civil War.
.......... +Mary Welch
...... 3Calvin Carter b: 1831 in Marion Co., Alabama
...... 3Mary Carter b: 1836 in Marion Co., Alabama
...... 3Susan Angeline Carter b: 1837 in Mississippi
...... 3Luther Carter b: 1841 in Mississippi
...... 3 Alfred Carter b: 1843
...... 3Drucilla Carter
...... 3Sanford Carter Jr.
.. *2nd Wife of Sanford Carter:
...... +Mary Bullen m: September 25, 1851 in Itawamba Co, Mississippi
...... 3William G. Carter
...... 3Alexander Carter b: 1831
...... 3Calvin Carter
...... 3Mary Carter
...... 3Susan Angeline Carter
...... 3Luther Carter
...... 3 Alfred Carter b: 1843
...... 3Sanford Jr. Carter
.. 2Hugh L. Carter b: 1805 in Tennessee d: 1855 in Cherokee Co, Texas
.. 2Girl Carter b: 1806
.. 2Samuel R. Carter b: 1808
.. 2William Carter b: 1810 in Tennessee
...... +Polly Carter
...... 3Polly Carter
.......... +William Crouch
...... 3Hugh Carter b: August 14, 1832 in Tennessee(Confederate pension #15690) d: September 06, 1909 in Texasand was buried in the Rounsevall Cemetary, Black Jack Community,Texas
.......... +Mary Emily Hill b: October 12, 1840 in Poke, Texas m: February 07, 1868 in Cherokee Co., Texas d: September 04, 1910 in Texas
...... 3Emeline Carter b: Abt 1833
.......... +James Walling
...... *2nd Husband of Emeline Carter:
.......... +Arbell Rounsevall m: August 08, 1967
...... 3Eliza Carter b: 1836
...... 3Mary Ann Carter b: March 20, 1847 in Mississippi d: January 03, 1888 in Athens ,Henderson Co, Texas
.......... +Samuel Lee m: December 12, 1865 in Athens ,Henderson Co, Texas
...... 3William Carter b: 1848 in Mississippi
...... 3Arminda L. Carter b: 1852 in Mississippi
.......... +John W. Carroll m: June 25, 1868
.. *2nd Wife of William Carter:
...... +Marcella Wiggins
...... 3Texanna Carter b: 1853
...... 3James Bright Carter b: 1854 in Cherokee Co., TX d: 1940 in Cherokee Co, Texas
.......... +Alice Jane Brewer b: 1859 d: 1918
...... 3Harry Carter b: 1856
...... 3Samuel Houston Carter b: 1859
...... 3Marietta Carter b: 1861
...... 3Mattie Carter b: 1865
...... 3Willmina Frances Carter b: 1869
.. 2Girl Carter b: 1812
.. 2Girl Carter b: 1814
.. 2Baines Carter b: 1816 in Tennessee
...... +Elizabeth Warren m: 1839
I don't know which of William's children stayed behind in White Co., TN.Supposedly before he was in White County, TN, he was in Patrick Co., VA.Do you know what towns are located there?He may have been born there.Thanks for your email, and please keep in touch if you can further share information.Patsy"
Notes and comments: 19 June 2003:Although the early 1830 and 1840 census are of course vague, the William Carter listed in White County TN is probably our William, and not your William R., because of the number and ages of the children - proven by the 1820 census listing for William R. found only on the White County Web Page.(This implies Wm. R. left before 1830.On the other hand, he is the prime candidate for the 1812 tax list).As to who may have stayed behind, do the fairly unusual names of Lathea (female), Meredith, Biley or Thomas mean anything to your clan?They are found in the 1840 White County census - and are not our Carter.
On the other hand, from our research on the Upchurch, we most take note of two sets of observations:
1a. Joseph Upchurch (of the tax list - and Fentress Co ) m. Jane Crouch on 2 Mar 1823
1b. Your Poly (of Wm and Polly) m. a William Crouch
2a. Your Emeline (ca. 1833) m. James Walling - a prominent family in White County, e.g., there was a separate 1812 Company under James Randall at "James Walling and vicinity"
PS It is understandable given the multiple marriages, but you have several of the children listed twice - under both spouses.Was the duplication accidental, or have you not been able to sort it out?
An intriguing question is this: could our William and your William R. be cousins in that they are of very similar ages, both are from Virginia and saw fit to come through Sparta?Was it more than a coincidence that one left town even as the other arrived?(Even though there were many, many migrants through the Cumberland Gap).It is very loose association, but there is only one county in-between Patrick and Wythe counties, Virginia.