Joyce, Thanks for the reply.Do you know if John was married before he married Elvira ? From census records and 2 obits. of his children the dates for the birth of these 2 don't fit.1 daughter born 1855 and 1 in 1857.These 2 are not on the 1860 census in SC. where John,21 is at home with his father. Do you have any other info. on John or any of his children? He would be my gg grandfather according to the obits. I have. Thanks for any help you may be able to give.