Hi - I am posting this as a reply to a few posts here. There seem to be a lot of Gelders in the Yorkshire area. My Grandfather - Edwin Charles - was born in 1878 in Blackburn, Lancashire. He was a master butcher with the Army Service Corps. His father - also Edwin Charles - was also a butcher and was born in 1848 in Barnsley, Yorkshire. His father (keep with me now!) was possibly Charles Edwin Gelder, born in 1824 in Edlington in Yorkshire. As '1848' Edwin Charles was a butcher from Barnsley and there is also another Edwin Gelder, a butcher in Barnsley born in 1833, I suspect they were at least second cousins. 1824 Charles Edwin's father was William Gelder who married a Sarah Pollard. Now I am speculating here, but I'm currently thinking that William had a few siblings. One of these might have married a Jane, born in Pontrefact, Yorkshire (these places are all very close by!). And it was this Jane who was the mother of 1833 Edwin Gelder. There is also a Chas J Gelder of Pontrefact, born in 1838 - possibly a nephew of William's and Jane's. Too make it all a little more confusing, there is another Edwin Gelder born in 1880 to another Edwin Gelder born in 1842. This 1880 Edwin Gelder was born in Barnsley, Yorkshire. Another one!! I suspect that this one might have been the grandson of one of William Gelder's brothers. All speculation at the moment. All I know for sure is that my great-grandfather, Edwin Charles of 1848, was a butcher in Barnsley who married a Lydia and was possibly the sone of the 1824 Charles Edwin. If anyone can confirm any of these other relatives that would be very much appreciated! If this has helped you - that's great too!