Hey, I talked to my dad today about Berties kids,he said he knew of 3 girls,edna, avril, and doris..He believes it was the oldest one he doesn't remember.He knew about the three sons, he knew the one died in Korea, he said he remembers the one who died at 13, he said he heard that he died in an altercation with a black boy in a stable. He didn't know the third one died. He said he thinks its JD, he said he was older and was in WWII?He said his father lived with Bertie when he was younger and he would wear a long coat and had candy in it, and Bertie's kids would come running underneath him and call him Uncle Bill.If you want I can give you my email address and give you all the names of William Harold Groce's children, he had 3 boys and 2 girls, ifyou are doing some family tree.My father is the second oldest. Thank you for the information.It has shed some light into my past as well.My father really didn't know anything further then Dudley, his grandfather. I heard the stories as a child growing up, but no names.