I don't know if any of my cousins may already have a copy of grandpas birth certificate or not. I ask around. Thanks for the offer. I will let you know. If you or Chris don't have a copy of the booklet that I have I would be happy to copy it and send it. I don't have access to a scanner yet. It is called the Hauth family and has a picture of Max and Irene in Little German outfits. It lists all of Max and Irene's children and their descendants. It's 15 pages and looks like it goes through Aug 24th 1985. That seems to be the last birth shown of the heirs. It has a tital of 395 heirs of Max and Irene at that point. My mother also recalls that some of Max's brothers went to South Africa she thinks. I haven't found any info on the Main sailing to New York on the date of Oct 22, 1880. Do you know how you figured that out? I found a manifest for the family having sailed back to Germany on the Southwark May 9th, 1900. My mother didn't know Max because he had died before she met my father but she seems to recall stories that Max and Irene took the children back to Germany a number of times. She can't figure out how he could afford it on a barbers wages.