Ok I have spent the last few hours searching for a link between the Isaac Ivins with 17 children and the Hiram who is listed as his son.My ggrandfather was born in Elkhart county, York Twnshp, Indiana.Going to the Census for 1850, I find them all listed (Isaac and Marys children) from the twins at 2 years old, to Eleazor at age 21. Going up to 1870 census I show only the twins at 21 at home and 14 year old Eunice. However the name is spelled Ivans. In my records I show a Delbert Pease Ivins b 1849/1854, and a Delbert S. Ivins b abt 1857 (same?), and an Edward Ivins b. abt 1859.those three are not on the 1870 census.Only Robert Sutton Ivins and Wife Mary and child Lewis (5 yrs) and a D.S. Ivins (that would have to be Delazon Smith Ivins at age 25 on the census, he was born 1844) and his wife M.J. and their child (female) name looks like Mark. 1yr old thats all for now.When I have more time I will tackle the 1860 census.it has 500 some pages with no way to narrow down the county.