Jim I was wondering. do you have a tree somewhere i can look at. I know some people are funny about that. Also the family lore. is there somewhere i can read that or get a copy of it? I got a picture of the first page in Sidney VW's funeral book. it has his date of bith and date of death. i also have one for Martin Luther and Anna Mae. i got these via carla hacker, who I believe has the originals or close contact to them. If your interested let me know. thanks for the help.