Re: Gatesden and Braose on Leuknor carpet of arms
By Gillian November 08, 2013 at 07:57:55
Last week I posted Message 2657 regarding the Lewknor Armorial Carpet.
I disagree with Fane Lambarde over his identification of Arms No.2 (his numbering): which he called Lewknor impaling La Warr (but claimed as a Lewkenor/West marriage), which I see as Braose impaling La Warr quartering Cantilupe. I also wrote that I did not recognise No.3, which he identified as Moyne impaling Holland.
Moyne appears on the internet exactly as shown on the carpet.
However, last evening, looking at Role d’armes Glover I spotted that No. 110 was Jean de Gatesden: Argent, two bars of sa and in chief three mullets – exactly as on the carpet. I also noticed No. 158: Robert Waleran: Argent, the band engrailed Gules, which does not appear on the carpet, but was identified at quarter no. 4 of the composite coat of arms by Durrant Cooper as Folyott (which it is not.) A photograph of the composite coat of arms can be seen in Chawton House and Its Owners by Leigh and Knight (on-line), the turtle shield being at that time in the ownership of Mr.Montague Knight. The authors identified this quarter as Culpeper (which it is; but, apparently also Robert Waleran).
From soc .genealogy.medieval by Ronnie Bodine, 8 April 1999: John de Gatesden. Died shortly before 10 April 1269... In 1269, the King gave the wardship of 200 marks of John de Gatesden’s lands and the marriage of his daughter and heir to Robert Walerand.
The carpet apparently shows what should now be identfied as Gatesden impaling Braose. Sir Ralph Camoys, 1st Baron Camoys, son of Sir John de Camoys and Margaret de Gatesden (daughter of Sir John de Gatesden and Hawise de Courtenay) married as his first wife Margaret Brewes.
So the juxtaposition of the shields, as I was beginning to suspect, do not necessarily show impalement/marriage. In the case of shield No.3 it shows the arms of the wife of Sir John de Camoys (Margaret de Gatesden) combined with the arms of the first wife of their son, Sir Ralph, 1st Baron Camoys (Margaret Brewes/Braose).
I really do not understand the thinking behind the design of this carpet and would be most grateful for the thoughts of others.
I have taken photographs in Trotton church, one of which shows a dark engrailed bend on a light ground. The shield also appears to show a smaller engrailed bend in the top right hand corner (which is rather odd).