Hi Carol, Thank you for that information. I have all those census reports already, and Elizabeth's find-a-grave info, yet Thomas continues to elude me. Most reports have him born in NY, yet there is one that says PA. I can find no death info for him at all, and he is not buried in the Mt. Hope Cemetery along with his wife and two sons as far as I've been able to tell. I have ordered Betsey/Elizabeth's death certificate, and I'm really hoping that will tell me who her parents were so I can figure out who she was. She is another one that is confusing me to no good end. On her son's death cert and his marriage license, it says his mother's maiden name is Kittenger/Kittinger. There is a marriage record in IN between a Thomas Madison and an Elizabeth Betsey Jane Blades in 1841, however her year of birth is 1829 which would have made her 12 when they married???? And where does the Blades surname come from if she was a Kittenger? Surely she wasn't married before Thomas and before age 12! In any event, thank you so much for the response and links.