Hi Christine, Many thanks for the info, no i have not the wives of both Johns and would be pleased if you can tell me there names or any further information you have. What makes me wonder a bit is that according to my info on John b.1639 d.1712.he was the constable of Birkdale in 1666, this i find strange as the Bow St runners did not exist until the 1700s uner Robert Peel, I was not aware that the term`constable`was used prior to this, was your info reliable on this John? Again many thanks for you help. Regards Colin. ps. My home address is 110 Portland St, Southport PR8 6QZ.