I will try to keep this brief.....
The above post you have made is an excellent example of a very deliberate obfuscation to divert attention away from the fact the poster has been unable to prove that Jacob Beeler 1750-1843:
1. Is anything other than a “fictitious brother” of Joseph Beeler 1744-1833, or
2. In the State of Tennessee before 1812.
The following 3 and 4 have not been addressed in any post that has been made:
3. The Twenty Year Deception has not been explained. See 1. above.
4. The Ken bashes the famous Bible pages has been used before. Ken pushed a button and someone spilled the beans. The “Bash” you heard was when the pot hit the floor. You did it, not me.
These four statements of fact still exist. All the rest of the post is intended as a diversion.
This has become a fine kettle of fish for someone that uses the term “steal” and other derogatory terms so loosely.
Please relax and enjoy this great site while it lasts. You do not have to behave like that. Disagree Ms. Herron, but please consider the comments constructive. We understand you will never accept the facts or views of others but it doesn’t mean we can’t discuss them. There is no use in posting comments that will be a source of regret later.
I respond to this foolishness only because the whole point of the ”Beeler Family King’s Mountain Hoax” has been to take the military service away from the rightful soldiers.
I consider that a serious matter and you do have my attention.
I believe it is obnoxious behavior and you may expect to have pushed my button each time you engage in it. Actually, we are embarrassed for you but as long as you are up to it, go ahead on. You do have an audience.
This is not a trivial matter. My father was an Officer in the service of the United States. He was decorated multiple times for valor in combat. You treat him like you treat these other two soldiers and you will get the same reaction from me. When I said obnoxious I wasn't kidding. Let us move on.
The United States of America knows who was at King’s Mountain, S.C. and it is by way of primary documentation sworn in court and the government has it on file. If you choose to believe otherwise, go for it. It is your imagination and not shared by the U. S. Government and others of us who watching these shenanigans.
There was never a “diminishment” of Jacob Beeler 1750-1843. To begin with, he never had any documentable military service and genealogy history whatever. THAT is what started this charade. He never had the credits FALSELY claimed by still living persons on this very forum. Gained by hoax and lost by exposure. It was never his to begin with and you know it.
The charade that has been exercised to yield the prize has been exposed. Any value you have “claimed” was an ill-gotten enhancement.Ill-gotten treasures have no lasting value and you have been part of it.
Ms. Herron, you cannot even prove who Jacob Beeler’s 1750-1843 father is. “Undocumented”, isn’t that an amusing joke? Why don’t you coin another term? You are making a malicious accusation against my family and we request you stop it. Just because you can’t prove something gives you no right to denigrate another person’s family.
When I state Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 has absolutely no N.C. military service that can be documented, I mean exactly what I said. NONE. YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO PROVE A SINGLE DAYS MILITARY SERVICE IN THE TERRITORY OF NORTH CAROLINA FOR THAT MAN, JACOB BEELER 1750-1843, SINCE WE BEGAN THIS MESS WITH Y’ALL 4-1/2 YEARS AGO. “NOTHING” CAN’T BE DIMINISHED. IT IS STILL ZERO.
MAY I SUGGEST YOU GO CHASE THAT “CONTINENTAL LINE” SERVICE IN PENNSYLVANIA. I see that on his tombstone and I will NOT make fun of that service. Even though we can't prove that, I will not have that disputed. The VA may consider that marker illegal but I will not make fun of it. Period.
Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 never did anything to deserve the so called “credit” of NC Territory Service placed on him by living persons in the last twenty years. It was never his fault it was ill-gotten. It was a deliberate deception carried out by only three or four persons and all those following this know who they are.
We have already gone through the bogus claims time and again so anyone really interested in this mess just needs to read the posts on this site during 2014. There are some posts in the previous years but they only substantiate the execution of the hoax and who did it. The Beeler-L archives are another good read on this so just go read the posts yourself.
This post made on 9-26-2014 is typical of countless posts during the perpetuation of this hoax story.
It’s the same old three stepper:
1.Someone is bad (that is me yesterday) and WE will “explain” it for you because you are too simple to read the documentation yourself.Isn’t that being thoughtful?
2.Load up with minutia that proves nothing to anyone BUT does divert the reader from the printed record. Admit we aren’t trying to prove anything BUT we are!!!
3.Bogus conclusion and…….on to OTHER things. California Gold Rush! Evelyn-Have you been to Sutter’s Mill? I have been there and I don’t remember anything about a Beeler at that place. That is just an absolutely amazing bit of Beeler history. How do you do it?
Go read the definition of the “word” yourself. I like the “humorous deception” for this whole affair. It really is a joke if a person just reads the original sworn documentation. That is precisely the reason this post has stooped to a rather personal nature by others. Apparently, you have decided to try and fight about it since you can’t answer the call for proof. Proof is not difficult but Ms. Herron just doesn’t have any proof and I have no interest in the other.
There are several other statements made in the above post of 9-26-2014 that are worth noting. They are nothing more than an attempt to perpetuate the hoax and are as follows:
1. THIS ONE IS BY FAR THE BEST……… IT IS REALLY THE ONLY REASON FOR THE POST AND IS BURIED UMPTEEN PARAGRAPHS DEEP IN IT!!!… THIS IS FUNNY BECAUSE WE ARE STILL NIBBLING AT THE TOPIC..Your quote follows:
“However, I am not trying to prove that he is a son and/or brother with anything I have written here. I am saying that Jacob Beeler came to Sullivan County when some of the other Beelers did. He got married, had children. He purchased land. He may have fought in some of the militia battles and skirmishes, but this service may have been undocumented. Did they keep accurate records of all persons who were in various fighting groups on this frontier.”
a. THAT IS EXACTLY CORRECT…. BECAUSE MS. HERRON CAN’T PROVE IT!!!
b. He may BE this or that is not what we WERE EVER really talking about. This is not “Story Time” for most of us. It is trying to document events and people and Ms. Herron can do neither.
c. This subject has more sworn primary documentation than most any Revolutionary War service claim would have and there is NO need for any speculation.
2.Essentially, that is the end of the story for all practical purposes. We are still at it…. Go to 3.
3.The statement that really is of any consequence is the following:
a.“I have prepared this post as, perhaps, my last or oneof my last for this forum to honor Jacob Beeler 1750-1843. Kenneth Parker has chosen to attack this individual, to diminish him. I am not talking here about who his parents were. He was listed as a “probable” son long before the Bible Pages surfaced. The first listings did not seem to have anything to do with King’s Mountain. He is still an undocumented, possible son of Ulrich and Maria Elizabeth Buhler. Kenneth Parker can say there is no proof that he is a son; but he cannot say there is PROOF that he is NOT a son.”
b. From a. above: “He is still an undocumented, possible son of Ulrich and Maria Elizabeth Buhler.” Good luck with that one Ms. Herron. After the “Beeler Family Bible “ mess…
c. Of course I can’t negative “prove”. The challenge for Ms. Herron is to prove and she admits she can’t. The rest of the post is bunk and minutia. I stated only the facts and never met Anna. There is no reason to attack anyone and nobody has.
d. Ken B, email me and tell me how you think this one is going. These become a hoot when you realize what they are up to. I’m just checking you today to see if you are wide awake. This is a riot. Where else can you get such a wild imagination in print???
4.“The Bible Pages show Jacob Beelar’s name and birthdate at the top.”
a. What is LEFT OFF THE SENTENCE is “of an otherwise BLANK SHEET.” Way to go Evelyn!! The two ! are Pinocchios.
b. The reader now has been given the idea that the names are together. WRONG and you get two Pinocchios. Ms. Herron, I told you we had copies.IF WE ARE NOT LOOKING AT THE SAME THING WE REALLY HAVE A MESS. PLEASE DON’T EVEN SAY THAT BECAUSE THAT SUGGESTS A COMPLETE FARCE.
c. There was always the possibility that Mr. Parker didn’t actually have the copy he claimed but, he does. Oh durn.
d. Once a person fibs about a record in this hobby I believe anyone reading this will agree there is no such thing as credibility anymore. So much for the rest of the minutia.
Minutia is trivial information added for the sole purpose of diverting the attention of the reader from the lack of ANY substance to the argument. This type of post is necessary when you are completely out of any fact to support one’s position. I will post some pointers on how to spot a hoax. It is not hard to do.
e. Spotting the hoax is what brought about my post of December 29, 2009. I knew (go look at the sentences around “almost” in that 12-29-2009 post) something was not in order before I even looked at that pension. Sure enough the age was off eleven years but we conveniently failed to say anything about it in 1993, and off we went through endless minutia for 4-1/2 years.
I NEVER saw a single document that you guys would point to that didn’t have something that needed “explanation” or “correction”. Not one. They can’t because there isn’t any single piece of sworn documentation that doesn’t have a “problem” for them. I get a warm fuzzy feel of confidence every time I read one of these posts.Nothing but opinion, explanation and speculation for 4-1/2 years!!! (Three P’s for the 4-1/2 years).On to Number 5 and another try at it…
5. “Given names with dates are listed under Jacob’s name and on the other Xeroxed pages.”
a. “on the other Xeroxed pages”, umhh?
b. Which is it? The latter because Ms. Herron is still trying to have the reader believe that the name “Jacob Beeler” is on the same blank page as the other given names. THAT IS NOT CORRECT! Please see “4c.” above. The name at the top of the list begins with “Sa” and there is NO space for anything above it.
6. The only other statements in the post that really matter are as follows:
a. “Kenneth Parker and his supporters claim that these are useless because there is nothing on the pages to link the list of names with Jacob Beelar. He claims that the list does not prove relationship.Again, his opinion because he does not know, one way or another, whether the persons listed are related to Jacob and/or to each other.”
b. OF COURSE ---THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO SHOW/PROVE THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP TO ANYONE. MS. HERRON HAS THE SAME PROBLEM AND ADMITS IT!!! It looks like she is doing the Bashing now. That was all I said to begin with… It proves nothing and she is CORRECT!
I said in a previous post a year or two ago, I would love to have that 1788 Bible. It is from the period and it really doesn’t matter what it says. I do believe it belonged to some Beelers but that we don’t know who doesn’t matter. It is what it is. Why the names were scribbled in there we will never know. I have a very good idea because my wife does it also. It just doesn’t say what it was “claimed” to say and we know who did that fine piece of work.
7. Go read the Newton Hacker letters in the United States Pension File S.5277 that he sent in 1910 and 1914. HE COULDN’T GET IT TO WORK (Read the file letters yourself, it is simple) AND HE KNEW THERE WERE TWO JACOBS. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER REASON FOR HIM TO HAVE WRITTEN THOSE LETTERS IF THERE WASN’T TWO JACOBS.
Please add Newton Hacker to the “supporter list”. He saw the same things we did a hundred years later! (I have asked YOU to go read the Pension File. See my approach? I have done that ALL along). Check out the letter from Mr. Lewis while you are in that file. Interesting for a very specific reason. Can you even guess what it is? He is buried in Liberty Hill Cemetery, Washburn, Tennessee. My, don’t we notice things? In 1938 something else was visible.
8. Down somewhere in the Minutia is a comment about Benjamin A. Beeler. That “Massive Court Case” is over $200. I believe the story has been totally minutiae but can you imagine Benjamin A. Beeler, a man with 5,000 acres in Tennessee distraught over $200.
There is no document that shows he has ANY relationship to a Jacob Beeler 1750-1843. Again, NONE. You do know what the “A.” is for, don’t you? It is not for the word Accident!
This is supposed to be fun so let’s just calm down and enjoy the post. If the documentation doesn't suit you, I'm not the one to complain to. You need to talk to history records, not me.
Just as we said in another response to a post.
Not a single word about any relationship to anyone that places Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 in Sullivan County, Tennessee, before 1812 or that he is related to ANYONE.
We just cannot do it, can we Ms. Herron?
Another example of claiming documents state something they do not say. Total nonsense and exactly like the famous "Beeler Family Bible". Again, I don't see a bit of difference.
SEPTEMBER 27, 2014RECAP FOR WHERE WE ARE TODAY
Just to recap where we are with Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 since you decided to post for posterity:
1. Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 is NOT a son of Ulrich and Maria Buehler May 2014. Unchanged, 9-27-2014.
2. The famous “Beeler Family Bible” aka “Jacob Beeler Bible”, aka “Underwood Bible” has no relationship of Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 to anyone and no relationship shown within the Bible to anyone listed. The given names do NOT show on any otherwise blank page with a Jacob Beeler name. Unchanged, 9-27-2014.
2a. MS. HERRON, YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHO OWNED THE BIBLE BEFORE SHIRLEY UNDERWOOD FOUND IT IN 1947 AND WE KNOW THAT FOR A FACT.Unchanged, 9-27-2014.
3. Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 cannot be found in a single document with the other Jacob(s) until 1812. He is 62 years old in 1812 and pays no white pole. Unchanged, since 1812.
4. Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 was not born in Shenandoah Virginia. That is nothing but a claim from Ulrich living there at the time. No document supports that claim at all. Why would it? Unchanged, since 1750.
5. Ulrich Beeler and George Beeler cannot be proved sons of Ulrich and Maria Buehler. Their “proof” had been (let us take this out before we make anyone upset. “Beeler Family Bible”) the endless repetition for the last twenty years of the so called “fact” and has been part of hoax story for only the twenty years.Unchanged, 9-27-2014.
6. All references to a Joseph Beeler and Jacob Beeler before 1796 are to the sons of John Valentine Beeler 1737-1823. No primary document sworn in any court contradicts that position. Unchanged since 1796.
7. No proof exists that Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 is even in Tennessee until 26 years after 1796. NONE. Unchanged, 9-27-2014.
8. Joseph Beeler 1744-1833 and Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 NEVER filed a North Carolina Grant for service in the War of the Revolution. Unchanged, 9-27-2014.
9.Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 buys his first property in Sullivan County (TAKE OUT on 3 May 1815) after 1812 and Ms. Herron proved it (maybe*). Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 bought that land (Arwine and Miller) from the John Valentine Beeler FAMILY and we do know who filed the patent if you are talking about the Arnwine AND Miller tracts.Please keep in mind that the original North Carolina Territory Grant filings set the entire stage of Beeler Land in Sullivan County Tennessee prior to 1794. It was over before the other TWO ever showed up. They bought such a small amount of land and it was always from someone who had already filed patent. I guess it begs the question of why do we care?
The Joseph Beeler 1744-1833 and Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 were Johnnys come lately and bought only what others had already made the “original” claims on during the Revolution and the eleven years following. Unchanged, 9-27-2014.
10.The V.A. marker for Jacob Beeler 1750-1843 in the Beeler Cemetery, Bristol TN is a mistake and never should have been placed. Unchanged, 9-27-2014.
WE COVERED THE "3" THING MONTHS AGO. I was pushing buttons and you did respond. All over something that didn’t make a bit of difference but you did clear the air.
A few questions for you Ms. Herron if you will:
A. PLEASE SHOW US HOW YOU PROVE JACOB BEELER 1750-1843 IS IN SULLIVAN COUNTY TENNESSEE BEFORE 1812.
You continue to dodge the issue. Without it, the rest of your claims are without any basis whatever. You are missing the KEY fact of “presence” in Sullivan County, Tennessee before 1812. Unchanged, 9-27-2014.
This is not rocket science …..You are absolutely unable to prove it.
B. WHO IS ANNA SUPPOSED TO BELONG TO? WHY IS THAT SO IMPORTANT?
Is there any proof who is her father? It definitely sounds like you don’t have any proof but the famous “Beeler Family Bible”.I don’t believe it really matters but see if you can pile some minutia on it. I don't see why the father couldn't be Jacob Beeler 1761-1842. It is the same name.
C. WHY DO I CARE IF JACOB BEELER 1750-1843 IS IN SULLIVAN COUNTY SINCE YOU CAN'T PROVE HE IS RELATED TO MY FAMILY? Unchanged since May of 2014.
D. WHY ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT AN ILLEGAL CHILD?
UNDOCUMENTED SOUNDS UGLY AND SINCE ULRICH AND MARIA BUEHLER ARE NOT YOUR FAMILY, PLEASE STOP THAT. IT IS RUDE AND I DON’T DO THAT WITH ANY OF YOUR RELATIONS.
WHEN YOU FIND OUT WHO THE FATHER IS, LET US KNOW. THIS DOES SOUND SILLY BUT IT IS EXACTLY WHERE WE ARE ON THIS ONE. WE ARE CLUELESS AS TO WHO IS THE FATHER OF JACOB BEELER 1750-1843.
WE ARE RIGHT WHERE WE WERE TWENTY YEARS AGO. NOBODY KNEW WHO WAS THE FATHER OF JACOB BEELER 1750-1843 AND THEY STILL DON’T.Unchanged for twenty years and probably never will be solved. Bummer.
Nice hearing from you. The Minutia hasn’t provided a single answer Ms. Herron.
Do you remember the old TV show Dragnet? I used to watch that one each week. Sergeant Joe Friday...Just the facts ma’am, just the facts. What was his sidekick?
Anyway, pile on the Minutia if you have no facts. I did like the Gold Rush information. I did pan for gold in the American River. Let us see what you come up with.
Waiting for a single piece of real proof but lay some Minutia on us if that is all you have. Nothing real seems to exist but we wouldn’t miss it for anything.
The Minutia does look impressive to the amateurs doesn’t it? About as impressive as the Minutia I could load you up with about antique Fords.
Amazing trivia if you are into brass cars, acetylene headlights and magnetos. My acetylene headlights are rated at 3/4 pound. Isn't that exciting?
Kyle Busch in the 54 car just won the Nationwide Monster Mile at Dover NASCAR but I can't put this up until I get back from Church. Who says I can’t multi-task? Hurry back. Can’t wait!
Cordially - KP