Re: Mary CARTMELL/Paul FROMAN

Thank you for sending the manuscripts Joan--I appreciate it.
After reading them over, I believe that the information in the Tull paper is probably also based on the T.K. Cartmell book about the Shenandoah pioneers, which has been the most often-quoted source claiming that Paul Froman Jr.'s wife was Mary Cartmell.While there is valuable information in this book, there appears to be no subtantiating evidence for this.Personally, I believe that T.K. simply assumed that since one Nathaniel Cartmell III married Paul Froman's sister, Elizabeth, that Paul's wife's last name was also probably Cartmell--T.K. probably had to other leads.If memory serves me correctly, I do not think T.K even gave Mary as a first name, but rather listed the wife____________ Cartmell, and did not cite any verifiable documentation to prove this was so.

I would like to share with all researchers on this forum the following summary of points that ought to help dispel this myth:

1)There are currently at least two researchers, one on
FamilySearch.com and one on Ancestry.com, who have used the birthdate of Mary McCarty (Dec. 10, 1738) as that of Mary Cartmell.Their posting of this information on the World Family Tree and other places, has added to the confusion, and seems to me an attempt to force a fit.I cannot find any document supporting this birthday as that of any Mary Cartmell, but it can be proven through the information in the Darby McCarty Family Bible that this is indeed Mary McCarty's birthday.The birthdate of Paul Froman Jr.'s wife has to be approximately that of Mary McCarty,since it is difficult to reconcile the birthdays of their offspring otherwise.

2)I have also often read that the Mary Cartmell who supposedly married Paul Froman Jr. is purportedly the daughter of Nathaniel Cartmell, SR.In the book, "Pioneers of Old Frederick Co., VA," by Cecil O'Dell, one Nathaniel Cartmell and a Sarah _____________ do have a daughter named Mary who would be in the ballpark age-wise.However, there is a substantial problem:In that Nathaniel's will, he names his daughter as "Mary, wife of Nathaniel Willis."(I do trust this information, since Mr. O'Dell uses the primary document here as proof.)

This information is further corroborated by Ancestry.com's database "Virginia Marriages to 1800:Frederick Co.," which shows the following:"Cartmell, Mary married Willis, Nathaniel on 15 Jan 1789 in Frederick Co., VA."

I have also found another Mary Cartmell, who was the granddaughter of Nathaniel and Dorothy Cartmell (b. ~1660), but this Mary is named in Dorothy's will with the married name of Smith, not Froman.

Other Mary Cartmells:
a)Mary, daughter of Thomas Cartmell--since Thomas was born 10 April 1769, this Mary was probably not born before 1789, so could not be a mother to Paul Froman Jr.'s children.
b)Richard L. King on Ancestry.com showas a Mary Cartmell as the wife but gives no birth and death dates.She is supposedly the daughter of Jacob Cartmell and Rebecca Crist (no dates for them either).Jacob is the son of Nathaniel Cartmell II (d. 1795 in Frederick Co., VA) and his wife Sarah Russell, with Jacob the son of Nathaniel Cartmell (b. ~1665 in ENG) and Dorothy Poole (no further information).
c)Also on Ancestry.com, Stuart French, Cynthia Hill and Lee Case all list a Mary Cartmell as Paul Froman's wife, but give no parents for her and no birth date.

Unfortunately, even the "DAR Patriot Index" (1966) erroneously names Mary Cartmell as John Paul Froman Jr.'s wife, because someone years ago submitted it that way.Luckily, since DAR membership is contingent on the male line for service in the Revolutionary War,the Mary McCarty change would not affect anyone's membership.It might be noted however, that Mary's brother, Jonathan, was in the Shenandoah Militia and also served as a captain in the KY MIlitia, Nelson Co., 27th Regiment during the Revolutionary War.Many of Mary McCarty's other relatives also served.

3)The Cartmell family has earlier ties to the McCarty family through the McKay and Chester lines (both of Mary McCarty's brothers Jonathan and Isaac married McKay girls who I am fairly certain descend from James McKay and Mary Chester, Mary Chester being the daughter of Sarah Cartmell and Thomas Chester.

4)In the McCarty family tree, there are several Isaac Froman McCartys.The earliest of them was born ~1770 in either VA or KY, which to me indicates some sort of familial tie, especially since this Isaac Froman is definitely of an age that would place him one generation younger than Paul Froman Jr.The McCartys had a long-standing tradition of using family names as middle names.

5)Paul Froman, JR (it actually says, "Jr.") and Jacob Froman (his brother) were witnesses to a land lease document between Darby McCarty and Job Combes in Frederick Co., VA on 07 June 1763 (Frederick Co., VA Deed Book Series, vol. 2, Deed Books 5,6,7,8, 1757-1763, Abstracted, Amelia C. Gilbreath, 1990) SW: Passage.Here again we have a connection between these families.Paul was approximately 29 at the time, and could have already been Darby's son-in-law.

6)In the "Portrait and Biographical Album of DeWitt and Piatt Counties Ill, published 1891 by Chapman Bros., Chicago, Ill (a source which, interestingly pre-dates the T.K. Cartmell book by approximately ten years)there is the biography of John S. Brown which states that Mary McCarty was his great-grandmother and wife of Paul Froman (Jr.).This document can be viewed by going to the GENWEB site for Illinois.The following excerpt from that source gives the lineage: ("John S. Brown) was born April 20, 1830, near Taylorsville, Spencer County, Ky, to Henry K. and Christenia (Froman) Brown, natives respectively of Nelson and Spencer Counties, Ky.They spent their entire lives in the State of their nativity." . . . "The paternal grandfather of our subject was John L. Brown, who was born at Brownsville, Pa.He married Jemima Cotton"and finally, "The mother of our subject is a daughter of John Froman, who was a son of Paul Froman.The latter was born in Pennsylvania, and married Mary McCarty.John Froman was born and reared in Pennsylvania, and died in Spencer County, Ky.He married Catherine McKay. . . "

Mr. John S. Brown would have been in his sixties when this document was printed, young enough I would think to be able to correctly recollect his granparents' and great-grandparents' names or to have access to other family members who could help clarify any questions.I have double-checked all of the lineage information in the John S. Brown biography and it is all verifiably correct.

8)Concerning the last name confusion, I think it is noteworthy too, that Mary McCarty's father had a habit of often dropping the "Mc" prefix from his name, going simply by the name of Carty.It seems to me that this could easily be misconstrued into Cartmell, if one wanted to draw that conclusion.

9)I may be wrong, but to my knowledge no one has ever discovered--with the notable exception of the John S. Brown biography excerpted above--any documents that ever give Mary's maiden name--she is generally cited as "Mary, wife of Paul Froman," or something along those lines.

I encourage all researchers looking into the question of the identity of Paul Froman Jr.'s wife to check the sources yourselves and then draw your own conclusions.I think the above evidence provides fairly concrete evidence that she was indeed Mary McCarty, not Cartmell.