User Home Page Book: William Horn of Nansemond and his Heirs: NGS Quarterly Report of Josiah Horn of Blooming Grove (TN)
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Descendants of Josiah Horn
2.James6 Horn (Josiah5, William4, Henry3, William2, Hypothetical1) was born Abt. 1787 in Nash, NC7.He married unknown.
Notes for James Horn:
James Horn is not listed by Estelle Horn as a son of Josiah and Elizabeth.He appeared to me in the records of Jim Doyle, wft 4:1402, where birthdate is given as 1787, and marriage date of Josiah and Elizabeth is given as 1790-92.See notes to David Bunn, father of Elizabeth Bunn.It is conceivable James was a son of Elizabeth Bunn by a prior marriage to ? Curl, or the son of Josiah by a prior marriage.
Children of James Horn and unknown are:
| + | 8 | i. | Judson7 Horn, born 1817 in Montgomery County, TN. | |
| + | 9 | ii. | William Horn, born 1819 in Montgomery County, TN. |
3.Thomas6 Horn (Josiah5, William4, Henry3, William2, Hypothetical1)8 was born March 17, 1788 in North Carolina, and died November 1, 1867 in Missouri.He married Elizabeth Hunt9 Abt. 1812 in Tennessee.She was born April 6, 1797, and died June 3, 1838 in Missouri.
Notes for Thomas Horn:
The indication that Josiah Horn may have had a son named Thomas was first called to my attention by Barry Ousley ([email protected]) of Seqium, Washington in August of 1999, and I did not fully appreciate the possible significance of his observations until recently.
Mr. Ousley has information well documented in a family bible and supported by census data that this Thomas Horn was born in NC, his first children were born in Tennessee and later children in Missouri.
Most compelling, and bearing an uncanny resemblance to the story of the origin of Winifred Horn, this Thomas Horn used the names, Henry, Josiah, and, (Eureka), Cordal! (among others).
Copies of information received from Mr. Ousley and extensive correspondence between us will be included here, to document the considerations involved in assessing the possibility, perhaps the likelihood, that this Thomas Horn was closely related to Josiah Horn and his wife, Elizabeth.I believe it is very likely that this Thomas Horn was either 1) a son of one or both of Josiah Horn and his wife, Elizabeth, 2) or a ward of Josiah and Elizabeth that they had raised as one of their children.
The striking similarity between the stories of WInifred Horn and Thomas Horn seems to enhance the likelihood of such a consideration.
* * * * *
CORRESPONDENCE FROM Barry Ousley follows for documentation and analysis.(Originals are in FTWDocsOusley.)
Item #1:
From: [email protected] olypen .com
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]
Sent:Saturday, August 28, 19996:31 PM
Subject: Family Info
Hello Bob,
Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! I'll start sending information in pieces here.
What I have are the notes my father took when he was in Farmington, Missouri. Unfortunately,
we don't have that Bible in hand, and I'm not sure who has it now. Here is a transcription of my
father's notes from the Bible:
The following information was copied from the Horn Family Bible belonging to Mr. Orvill Horn,
Farmington, Missouri:
Thomas Horn, Sr. Nov. l' 1867
Elizabeth Hunt Horn June 3, 1838
Noah Horn (near Holly Springs, Miss. probably in 1862 or 63)
James Horn (in battle of Pea Ridge, Clark Co., Ark) April 13, 1864
Dudley Horn (in Texas) 187 -
Cordal Horn 187 -
Henry Horn 188-
Charles N. Horn 1935
--
Thomas Horn born March 17, 1788
Elizabeth Hunt born April 6, 1797
Their children:
Newton Horn November 2, 1813
William Sept. 8, 1816
Dudley Horn March 30,1818
Thomas Feb. 10, 1820
Josiah Dec. 15, 1821
Cordal Nov. 3, 1823
Nancy Elizabeth Nov. 11, 1825
Henry May 17, 1827
Emily May 3, 1829
Mary Feb. 19, 1831
Jasper Sept. 2, 1832
James April 20, 1834
John N. Jan. 7, 1837
NoahJune 3 1838
****************
Josiah born Dec. 15, 1821
Jane Horn born Feb. 1822
Thomas N. Horn Feb. 23, 1845
Mary Elizabeth June 16, 1846
Richard H. Horn July 11' 1848
Sarah Jane Horn April 6, 1850
George W. Horn June 6, 1852
Eliza Emily April 14, 1854
Andrew J. Horn Oct. 1 , 1856
Charles N. Horn Mar. 24, 1859
Alice Cordela Horn Mar. 17, 1861
Josiah Horn and Jane Sutherland married May 23, 1844
Josiah married Margaret Hibbits Dec. 31, 1891
Thomas N. and Emma E. Rey 3-25-1869
Samuel J. Vansickle and Emma E. married Feb. 11, 1815
Mary Elizabeth Horn died Mar. 29, 1847
Richard Henry Horn died April 22, 1862
Jane Horn died Dec. 21 J 1882
***
Josiah Horn b. Aug. 6, 1766 d. Aug. 23, 1845
Elizabeth Horn b. Sept. 8, 1765 d. July l, 1840
m. May 1787
That is the information from the Bible. I have copied it exactly the way
my father wrote it from the Bible when he copied it. Apparently, the first list IS
death dates for various family members. We now know that the death dates and places
for the Noah and James Horn aren't quite right, but both were killed in action in the
Civil War fighting for the Confederacy.
I'll go ahead and send this and get the census info ready. Talk to you soon!
C:FTW/Ousley/Ousley082899.rtf
Item #2:
From:<ed [email protected] .olypen .corn>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 19996:54 PM
Subject: Horn Census Info
Hello again!
Here is what I have from the census records, primarily from St. Francois and St. Genevieve Counties, Missouri where our Horn line congregated. Again, these are notes my father took. I don't have the actual
census record copies with me. It's about an hour's drive from here to Seattle and the nearest National Archives, so I don't get over there as much as I would like.
1850 Census St. Francois County, Missouri
William Horn age: 66 Farmer b: Tennessee
Judah 37 Tennessee
George L. 15 Laborer b: Illinois
Thomas Horn 60 North Carolina
John 12 Missouri
William Horn 36 Farmer Tennessee
Louisa 25 Missouri
Robert 8 Missouri
Louisiana 6 Missouri
Thomas M. 4 Missouri
Jefferson 2 Missouri
James 16 not listed
Cordal 26 Farmer Missouri
Susan N. 24 Kentucky
Phebe E. 1/12 Missouri
St. Genevieve County, Saline Township, Missouri 1850 Census
Dudley 32 Farmer Missouri
Amanda 28 Missouri
Anna E. 7"
Rebecca J. 6"
Amanda A. 4"
Thomas J. 10/12 "
Joseph 18 Farmer"
Josiah 27 Missouri
Jane27Virginia
Thomas N.5 Missouri
Richard H. 2"
Sarah J. 5/12"
Noah 11"
I'll get some more things ready to send from History of Southeast Missouri. I am
not sure if 1 can get to it tonight, but 1 will get the info to you soon.
I look forward to hearing back from you, and I'm anxious to work with you to see how this
puzzle fits together!
Talk to you soon, Barry
Item #3:
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 4:39 PM
Subject: Horn info
Hi Bob,
Thanks again for the message. I have your FTM site bookmarked and have been studying it quite a bit lately. I haven't seen anything in the notes I have about the possible daughter Winifred, but that certainly doesn't mean there might not be some connection at some point.
The following is quoted material from The History of Southeast Missouri concerning various Thomas Horn descendants. These biographies also help to place Thomas at various times in his life.
Jasper Horn. Closely associated with the interests of St. Francois county stands
the name of Jasper Horn, who was born in St. Genevieve County, Mo., in 1832, and
who is the son of Thomas and Nancy (Hunt) Horn. Of thirteen children born to their
marriage, two of the sons were killed while in service during the late war. The father
has been dead for about twenty years. ..
John N. Horn, one of the successful and enterprising citizens of Iron Township, was born
in St. Genevieve County, Mo., in 1837, and is the son of Thomas and Nancy (Hunt) Horn, who
were born and reared in Tennessee. ..
Thomas N. Horn, manufacturer of wagons and plows, and general blacksmith, of Fredericktown, Mo., a native of Farmington, Mo., was born February 28, 1846, and is the son of William and Louisa (Cleveland) Horn, and grandson of Thomas N. Horn, who was born in Virginia, but moved to Tennessee, and in 1830 settled in St. Genevieve County, Mo., and afterward in St. Francois County, two and a half miles northeast of Farmington. He was a soldier in the War of 1812 and died in 1864.
William Horn was born in Davidson County, Tennessee, in 1815 and at the age of 13, came with his father to Missouri, and settled in Ste. Genevieve County, where he married.
Aside from the one reference to the fact that Thomas was born in Virginia, the rest of the information
supports his westward movement from Tennessee to Missouri. Perhaps there are military records from the War of 1812 that would tell who Thomas' father was
I guess that's the information that we are working with now, but I will continue to search for
definitive answers, and I look forward to continuing our dialogue about our Horn ancestors!
Sincerely, Barry
C:FTW/Docs/Ousley082999.rtf
Item #4:
Horn to Ousley
Good Morning, Barry ,
Thank you for sending the very interesting information from the Farmington Bible records and from the 1850 Missouri census data. I am looking forward to receiving other information that you mentioned.
As I indicated yesterday, most of what I know and speculate about the Josiah Horn family is on the FTM web site.
I will try to generalize here and avoid repeating information that is recorded there, just for simplicity's sake.
As you have noted, I came upon several mentions of a Thomas Horn in the records of Montgomery County TN, not because I was looking for a son of Josiah Horn with the name of Thomas (I had no indication of this possibility), but because I have become interested in the elusive parentage of a well described and documented figure, Elisha Thomas Horn, born about 1800 in North Carolina, who founded a large Horn descendancy in the early 1800's, starting in Alabama and then mostly westward and still going strong. Reasons to consider the likelihood, probably remote, that the Thomas Horn mentioned in early Montgomery County records is the young Elisha Thomas Horn are discussed in a separate "essay" on the web site.
Until I heard from you yesterday, I had no indication that Josiah might have had a son named Thomas.
However, I am not at all surprised at such a consideration. It has been quite "problematical" to find clear documentation about Josiah in NC, probably primarily because of the fact that his father, "Colonel" William Horn, was a flamboyant, dashing, multiply-married, and hard to pin down kind of guy. (1 hope you have read about some of the mysteries that the Colonel left behind, also on the FTM web site. )
Josiah was about 34 when he came to Tennessee in 1800, and bought the land on Blooming Grove Creek in Montgomery County, perhaps 30 miles nw of Nashville, on or near the Cumberland River, down river from Nashville. His sister, Milberry, was married to Joseph Philips and well established near Nashville, where they had relocated a few years earlier. In 1796 Josiah's father and his fourth wife, Sarah Norfleet, had obtained property on the Cumberland, about halfway between Nashville and Blooming Grove Creek, although we have no indication that they ever lived on or even saw that land.
Many presumptions about Josiah's life are poorly documented and unsourced, according to what I know.
Josiah was clearly married to "Elizabeth" (the dates ofher birth and death are engraved on her headstone at the Blooming Grove Church Cemetery), but I am aware of no sourced documentation of the date of their marriage nor of her surname. Their is considerable indication and it is assumed to be very likely that she was born Elizabeth Bunn, and that she may have been married previously to a Joseph Curl.
In view of the very scarce documentation about the early lives of Josiah and "Elizabeth", I am keeping an open mind to other possibilities. It is conceivable to me that either Josiah and/or Elizabeth might have brought children from a previous marriage to their family. I think it is perhaps even more likely that Josiah and Elizabeth might have raised one or more nieces or nephews, children of a deceased or departed relative, as their own, confusing the identification of their offspring.
Helen Polly's information, recorded in the FTM web site, strongly suggests that Josiah may have had a daughter named Winifred. The most compelling evidence of such a child is the fact that Mrs. Polly's great-grandmother, Winifred Horn Tindall, living in central Missouri in the early 1800's named sons Josiah and Cordell!
Barry, for the moment at least, it appears to me to be a very strong possibility that your Thomas Horn of St. Francois County, Missouri in 1850, with sons named, among others, both Josiah and Cordal, is a son of Josiah Horn and Elizabeth of Blooming Grove. I cannot fully forsake the possibility that the few citations to a Thomas Horn in Montgomery County TN in the early 1800's refers to Elisha Thomas Horn, prior to his departure south, to Alabama, but the possibility that this person is the Thomas who went instead, northwest to Missouri does seem much more credible.
Let us try to see what other evidence we can muster, pro or con, about these issues
Parenthetically, it is intriguing to me that the information regarding "Winifred" reported by Helen Pollysuggests that Josiah Horn's wife, Elizabeth, was an Elizabeth Hunter, from South Carolina, daughter of a Revolutionary War figure, a Colonel Hunter. It is conceivable that the name of the Elizabeth Hunt who married your Thomas Horn and the name of the Elizabeth Hunter who, Helen Polly believes, may have been the wife of Josiah, have been confused, intermingled, erroneously recollected by one descendant or another. After a few generations it gets pretty hard to keep it straight about who was born in what century, even with a computer. Anyway, let us keep this possibility in mind.
Barry, I am taking the liberty of forwarding a copy of this letter, and of your initial Email to me, to Helen Polly of Columbia, MO and to Gwen Home of Santa Fe NM. Gwen is an authority on the Horn(e) families and a descendant of Elisha Thomas Horn. She will be greatly interested and will likely be able to help us figure out these issues.
Let's stay on this.
Bob Horn
Children of Thomas Horn and Elizabeth Hunt are:
| 10 | i. | Newton7 Horn, born November 2, 1813. | ||
| 11 | ii. | William Horn, born September 8, 1816. | ||
| 12 | iii. | Dudley Horn, born March 30, 1818. | ||
| 13 | iv. | Thomas Horn, born February 10, 1820. | ||
| + | 14 | v. | Josiah Horn, born December 15, 1821; died January 16, 1888. | |
| 15 | vi. | Cordal Horn, born November 3, 1823. | ||
| 16 | vii. | Nancy Elizabeth Horn, born November 11, 1825. | ||
| 17 | viii. | Henry Horn, born May 17, 1827. | ||
| 18 | ix. | Emily Horn, born May 3, 1829. | ||
| 19 | x. | Mary Horn, born February 19, 1831. | ||
| 20 | xi. | Jasper Horn, born September 2, 1832. | ||
| 21 | xii. | James Horn, born April 20, 1834 in Missouri; died April 13, 1864 in Battle of Pea Ridge, Clark Co, Arkansas. |
| Notes for James Horn: Confederate soldier, killed in action. |
| 22 | xiii. | John N. Horn, born January 7, 1837. | ||
| 23 | xiv. | Noah Horn, born June 3, 1838; died Abt. 1862 in Holly Springs, Mississippi. |
| Notes for Noah Horn: Confederate soldier, killed in action. |
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