The William Ernest Hudson Family Homepage:Information about Killian Knorzer/ Knortzer
Killian Knorzer/ Knortzer (b. April 15, 1677, d. November 28, 1734)
Notes for Killian Knorzer/ Knortzer:
NOTES:
Kilian Knorzer is recorded in the Furfeld Church book 1730 when his daughter,
Anna Rosina married there.Kilian is listed as "Burger und Inwohner zu Sennfeld in
Odenwald", which means that Kilian was a citizen and inhabitant of Sennfeld in Odenwald.Sennfeld is a village on the Seckbach River, northeast of Treschklingen.The family's
name in south Germany is "Knorzer" and it means "one who laments".The name Knorzer
is still common to the Baden area of Germany and is derived from Knorr, meaning a knot,
a short thick man.Another spelling is "Knortzer".The present day spelling Kanatzar
means a Russian stem and root, and "Son of the King".
The Heraldic description of the Kanatzar Coat of Arms is, Arms: Argent, an eagle
displayed, azure, tied about the neck, gules.Crest: on a mount vert, a lion passant,
azure.The large shield above the word Kanatzar is silver-white, which is the meaning
of "argent".The eagle is light azure."Gules" means red and refers to a red neckpiece
wrapped around the throat."Vert" refers to what the lion at the top of the crest is standing
on and is a light green.The "lion passant" refers to the lion walking with one paw
raised and looking forward to the left of the viewer.The lion is azure.
In Jim Henry's notes - he says that Killian was born about 1674 in Heilbronn, Germany
and died after 1727 in Germany.
5/2/02 - In Donna Glenn's notes - she gave me the new dates on Killian.She is descended
from Killian's son Johannes.
New information as of August 13, 2003 from Donna Glenn;
Copy of Kilian Knorzer's death certificate from Treschklingen Ev. Kirche
LDS Treschklingen microfilm # 1189301:
Sunday 28 November 1734 at 11AM
Kilian Knorzer, citizen and resident in Treschklingen,
died of shortness of breath and a tumor.He was 57 and 1/2 years of age.
He was buried on Tuesday, 30 November just before noon,
following a funeral sermon based on the Gospel of John --
Come follow me.........
Copies were also provided from LDS records documenting the marriage of Kilian
and Anna Barbara, his second wife, as well as the birth and death record of a
daughter, Anna Dorothea, born 1727, died 1729.There is also a birth record of
their son Jacob, born 1730.
There are several different spellings for Conatser's - Knortzer, Knaetzer, Kinatcher, Knorzer,
Connatser, Conatsure, Conatser, Conatre, Connatsey, Knatzer, Knoertzer, Kanatser and so on.
Notes from Donna Glenn:
From Donna Glenn, a great granddaughter of Martin Conatser (Knortzer/Knorzer), born in 1865,
who emigrated to Texas in 1865- - she sent this paper that her friend, Patricia translated for her,
telling of life in Germany in the 1600's and something about the Knorzer's.- - - in both English
and German.
This is the English version - - -
Dear Donna,
Thank you so much for your email.I translated the "living in Treschklingen" which I received from Mary.Please oversee the mistakes I probably made.I send you both the German and
the English versions.
I hope it gives you a little understanding about the living in that time.
Best regards to you and your family
Patricia
"The Living In Treschklingen"
Treschklingen - used to be a few houses in the area of the castle and near the village brook.1581
the name of the village's owner was Reinhard von Gemmingen.The noble family van Gemmingen
changed early to the evangelic belief.1582 the castle's chapel at the end of the village became
the Evangelic Church.It still is there today and has the mocking name "Kirchenrucker" which has
a reason.The Thirty Years War 1618 - 1648, Treschklingen also the whole area had to bear and
the landowners tried to settle farmers and workmen.Within the next 50 years people came from
Switzerland, Franconia, Austria and from other areas to Treschklingen.1693 during the Franch
War of Succession, the castle and all closed houses were burned down.The ancestors Schleyer
came in 1691 from Franconia and lived here mostly as farmers and meanwhile the name is gone.
When they arrived in Treschklingen they built a house, a big one for the Treschklingen proportional.
In 1811 it passed into the possession of the landowners of Gemmingen and was used as a
storehouse.In my childhood the name "Schleyresche Haus" was the largest and in 1960 it was
pulled down.
Balthasar Knorzer came after his marriages in Hohenstadt near Bad Wimpfen in 1722 to
Treschklingen - the birthplace of his father - in - law.It is possible that his parents also moved
to here and it looks like his father Kilian Knorzer born in Sennfeld was married twice.Except
Balthasar Knorzer, all sons stayed here, it couldn't be made out where they lived.The early
Knorzer probably were farmers and day laborers, later in the family they had weavers and weaver
masters.How was the living here?In a characteristic farming village you had to live with the
weather.When the harvest was good the farmers were able to pay the creditors, the day laborers
had work and the craftsmen had orders.When the weather was extremely bad some inhabitants
closed having no existence - and this was the reason for emigration.There was no war directly
here because Treschklingen was not near the major roads and was out of the way but troops
often came through Treschklingen and their animals had been provided also.This was a problem
for the people as the soldiers were not to gently and took whatever they needed without
consideration.Besides that, the demands of the landowners to give up the tenth part of all the
owned and rented land.Also people had in drudgery given up the highest part of hay and grain
crop before they had their own.They received a small amount about a fifth of the normal wage
and a load of bread, about 500 g and a Mab (litre) wine.The quality of the catering is not named.
The inhabitants of Treschklingen were bound to drive out wood of the forests also to help their
landowners when building and renovating houses.The farmers with cattle had to do service with harness, the women had to give up a certain part of hatched linen or hemp which the weaver had
to weave for a small amount.When selling land or buildings the landowners always received the
so - called "Handlohn".
When a man or woman died the "Sterbfall" was payable.Most of the times they did not charge when
a woman died but when the man died you had to make a list with all things and you had to pay 5%
to the landowners.Many times no cash was available and they had to sell one or more fields -
later missed for the harvest.In our area there used to be a so - called "Realteilung" when the
parents died, everybody became the same.This sounds good but the fields became smaller and
smaller, but the family to feed became larger because the Infant mortality was not so high anymore.
The Treschklingen people started to leave searching work in the cities.The men left to the new
factories and the young women to do work in the city households.The older brothers and sisters
had to provide the family in the villages and new younger could learn a trade.If you think of
that a marriage cost 100 Gulden at that time, it is understandable that many illegitimate children
were born.In the second half of the nineteenth century there was a change in the law that made
the situation a little bit better.Anyway they celebrated "Kirchweih" (parish far) and marriages,
they sang and danced and laughed - in my childhood all three "Gasthauser" had pianos.
During my childhood Treschklingen still looked like the time of Martin Karl Knorzer, about 1896/
70 they pulled down houses the village brook called "der Bach" had been covered and every thing
became larger, lighter and more modern, you can see the church which had been behind buildings
of the estate, but Treschklingen lost the face and character.Now back to the family, after
destruction of the Treschklingen's castle in 1693 the village was under Rappenau (today our main
place) administrated by officials, the fields were leased and there was until 1802 only a Meiereihof
where the leaseholders lived.1802 Sigmund von Gemmingen built up the castle again - looking
more like a country house and moved with his family to here again.He was born in Hungary and
was related to the Hungarian high nobility by his mother, he had high military duties and had
studied law.He ruled like a despot with hard hand at the same time he tried to have his way with
powers of persuasion and charm.The Treschklingen people and the baron had no easy times
together.He wanted from each person one "Morgen" about 30 ar, fruits like wheat, rye and oats
to cut in drudgery but this was not all the fruit that had been bounded and put up work for the whole
family.If you paid two "Gulden" you could get out.Since 1805 Treschklingen belongs to the
grand dukedom Baden, many villages went to court with the landowners because the drudgery
also Treschklingen.Some inhabitants, also Christoph Knorzer refused for a few years to do
drudgery more more the usually standard.1811 Sigmund von Gemmingen expected the 2 Gulden
and the amount increased over each harvest and the years - to seize.The official came with a
few farmhands and tried rigorously to collect the money.Two councillors who did not agree with
this method should have brought to Rappenau.This created a revolt and the two councillors
became free again.But this was not so much useful because the military was requested and
was billet in Treschklingen of cause on costs of the inhabitants.The "rebels" were arrested and
a Heinrich Schleyer got so excited that they took him also for arrest.After that the village lost
the lawsuit against the landowners and five men were in prison in Mannheim also Christoph
Knorzer, Heinrich Schleyer and Andreas Niklaus.Two sons of Christoph Knorzer received four
weeks of arrest and also Heinrich Schleyer's wife together with another woman of Treschklingen
received arrest.After a few petitions they finally allowed the men could get out of prison for the
harvest time.In the end they received a bill for the hosting in the prison and the payment for the
baron.Therefore some families really got into a bad financial situation.The 10th part and the
drudgery always took more money was stopped in 1820/40 against onetime high payment.
About 1720/30 a craftsman bought land in Treschklingen, built two houses, a barn and a stable,
we do know more after 1802.Georg Knorzer, son of Johannes Knorzer and Eva Barbara, maiden
name Zweigart were together with his father in law, the owners.I believe the grandfather of his wife
was a craftsman and the one who settled here.Georg Knorzer had to pay the heir to the brothers
and sisters of his wife when his father in law died.Therefore he needed a credit.You had to give
up the half house as a pawn additional some land.Five years later he died and his widow was
forced to sell one field after the other, first the garden, then 1812 the first house and barn to the
family Schober and she moved into the second house.1812 the stable was given to the weaver
Kuhnle who pulled down the barn and built up a new house that belonged to this family until
pulled down in 1912.Many of the Kuhnle family emigrated.The family Schober exchanged the
house with the family Brotel.1822 they had to auction it and Heinrich Schleyer received the
house.He gave it to his daughter Christina Knorzer maiden name Schleyer.Christina and
Martin Knorzer sold the house again but kept the stable and barn, pulled down and built up in
1834 a new house with stable and barn - all under one roof.The heir sold the house in 1900.
1952 my parents in law bought it and changed the barn into a living house.Later a sister of my
husband had it.1970 the house was pulled down and a new house was built up.The house had
so many owners, first it belonged to Christina Knorzer, now received several new owner again.
1865 my great great grandfather bought it, he probably lived here with wife and children some
time before - we still live here today and the house has now a different look.The small house of
the widow Knorzer has been divided again, one part belonged to the family Schwarz - ancestors
of my husband - my husband's grandfather was born here.Katharina Schwarz had three illegitimate
children, Georg Niklaus, his father went to law to receive a marriage permission, but lost and gave
up and emigrated 1866,Katharina and the children first stayed here.I believe Georg Niklaus worked
when he arrived - an American city and a man from Treschklingen - seven years later he came back.
Martin Knorzer a weaver master and councillor had with his wife ten children, two died, it looks
like they had a good living.His death 1854 had to be surprising, his widow could make a living with
the children free of debt and it is known she worked and was making nets and probably the grand-
son Martin Karl grew up here.His godparents were Jakob and Rosina Knorzer - a brother and sister
of his mother - Karl Stunz was a cousin of his mother.There is nothing known about his father.I
am sure the family knew him.The man who wrote the letter could also be a godfather because
shortly before he turned to the Mennonites and I believe he was not accepted by the pastor.
Georg's mother's maiden name was Kunzel, her uncles were blacksmiths here.Today there
still is a family Knorzer, their grandfather was the last blacksmith here - who had learned blacksmith
by a Kunzel.Also there are some other descendants of Knorzer - daughters who don't carry the
name Knorzer anymore and are not very interested on family history.Many do not want to know
the "poor family histories" may be one reason why some families do not want to talk about it -
also in my family.I do not think poorness is a disgrace - it is more like a fate you could place
yourself and when you see with how much courage your ancestors made a living you only can admire them.
Church records from the Evangelical Church in Treschklingen show Kilian Knorzer died on
Sunday November 28, 1734 at midday about 11:00 a.m.This was the second Sunday in
Advent.At that time he was considered a "Burger (citizen) and inhabitant of here in
Treschklingen."He died of ? Athem und geschwugt (? breathing and swelling or tumor).He
was 57 1/2 years old and he was buried on Tuesday, November 30, 1734.
More About Killian Knorzer/ Knortzer:
Burial: November 30, 1734, Treschklinger, Wurttemberg,, Germany.
More About Killian Knorzer/ Knortzer and Eva Barbara (Unknown):
Marriage: November 11, 1699, Sennfeld, Germany.
More About Killian Knorzer/ Knortzer and Anna Barbara:
Marriage: November 26, 1726, Sennfeld, Baden, Germany.
Children of Killian Knorzer/ Knortzer and Eva Barbara (Unknown) are:
- +Johannes Balthasar Knortzer, b. November 02, 1701, Furfeld, Bad Rappenau, Heilbronn, Baden, Germany, d. September 1769, Newberry Township, York County, Pennsylvania.
- Anna Rosina Knorzer, b. Abt. 1705, Germany, d. date unknown.
- Andreas Knorzer, b. February 12, 1716/17, Sennfeld, Baden Germany, d. August 02, 1719, Sennfeld, Baden Germany.
Children of Killian Knorzer/ Knortzer and Anna Barbara are:
- Johann Jacob Knortzer, b. 1730, Germany, d. February 20, 1744/45, Germany.
- +Johannes Knortzer, b. August 10, 1733, Germany, d. November 11, 1765, Germany.
- Jacob Knortzer, b. September 27, 1730, Sennfeld, Baden Germany, d. date unknown.
- Anna Dorothes Knortzer, b. November 23, 1727, Sennfeld, Baden Germany, d. July 08, 1729, Sennfeld, Baden Germany.
- <Unnamed>, d. date unknown.